Interview with Bill Bruford in Magyar Narancs
Date Submitted: 23-Jun-1995
Submitted By: Andras Toth (hallo244 at osiris dot elte dot hu)
As promised, here follows the telephone interview I had done with Bill
Brudord and which was published in the Hungarian newspaper Magyar Narancs two weeks ago. This is the original, uncut English version. The Hungarian title of the interview was "A Relentless
On-going Machine". My thanks go to Dave Depper (jdepfam at bendnet dot com) and Les (leslabb at prolog dot net), who contributed with questions (although I did not use many of them). On the same day, I had the chance to make another
interview with Trey Gunn, which is to be published in another Hungarian
paper called Wanted. Understandably, I will not put it in ET before it is
in print in Hungary (probably next week).
Good reading:
Andras TOTH
Interview with Bill Bruford
29.05.1996.
AT: Compared to your other musical experiences, what is special about
playing in King Crimson (if there is anything?)
BB: It is special to me. It comes from a lot of history, I've been playing
in it for such a long time. It has so many connections for me. It has been
the place where I have been able to do some of my best work and have access
to a large audience. It is possible to do interesting things in jazz and so
forth, where there is a small audience. For King Crimson, there is an
international reputation, and it is possible to stage percussion as
well. There are facilities to use two drummers for example, to have several
drum-kits or to have electronic kits etc. So it's a very useful group for
me, but more than this, it has a lot of emotional content.
AT: This reputation and technical facilities, you must have had them with
Yes as well.
BB: True, but Yes -I think sadly- is not the group it was. People have
always made the mistake of joining Yes and King Crimson and sometimes
Genesis together as the same sort of British group. But I assure you that
King Crimson is entirely different, in its ethics, in its music, and the
way it puts music together, the way it conducts its business, everything is
completely different.
AT: You mentioned the double drummer, double trio concept you are now using
in King Crimson. Do you find this experiment successful and rewarding, or
is it just something that popped out from Mr.Fripp's mind?
BB: (laughs) Yes, it popped out from Fripp's mind, it's not something that
I would have chosen. But that's always the way with King Crimson. There are
often unusual things going on, and it is up to me to make something of it,
to respond to the challenge. Sometimes it may be: let us use electronic
drums, or maybe: let's not play the cymbals very much, or maybe: here is
another drummer. Something to keep me on my toes, to keep me
interested. And I think it is fun: Pat is really the Ringo Starr and I am
???, in a way. So on the whole, it's rewarding. King Crimson is always
quite hard work, but yes, it is a labour of love.
AT: You used the word "ethics" a moment ago. To what extent do you have to
be acquainted with Mr.Fripp's theories in order to be able to play in King
Crimson?
BB: (laughs) Not at all. But of course, I have grown up with Robert, and
watched him develop. I suppose my intuitive feelings about music happen to
coincide with his more intellectual reasoning about music. What he thinks I
feel, to be simple about it. So many of his directions are just very
suitable for me. There are other aspects to the band which I would not do
if I were the leader, but that's up to him. It's essentially Robert's band,
so that's fine.
AT: And as to listener, how much do you think he or she should know about
those theories? Does it help to understand the music, or is it unnecessary?
BB: It should be completely unnecessary, the music should work entirely on
its own. And indeed, I think it does. We now have an educated audience who
is prepared to leave its preconceptions behind in the lobby of the gig, and
to come with an empty mind and judge us as a fresh group. If we were
twenty-year olds from England, and it was a new a group, it would be
considered as a very good group.
AT: How do you organise your work inside the band, how much is it Robert
Fripp's band, is he the one who gives the directions, how much is there
democracy?
BB: Really, it is extremely democratic. In the business sense absolutely
democratic, in the "when-do-we-work" sense democratic, we have all agreed
to work for four to five months a year. Robert would propose something and
we would agree to do it, if somebody does not want to do it, that's fine,
everybody has the power of veto, essentially. But he would use it very
carefully. With the music, most people think that Robert writes everything,
and tells everybody what to do. That is actually not the position at
all. If you had to tell me, Tony or Adrian Belew what to do, then it
wouldn't really be worth working with us, and you would want to have hired
musicians. So Robert will suggest usually by an initial guitar composition
or two the general direction, and he would say things like "a relentless
on-going machine", or he might say "an almighty clattering sound". And
this would be indicated by a piece from the guitar called "Vrooom" or
"Thrak", or in 1974 it might be "Red", or perhaps earlier "Larks' Tongues
in Aspic". This would give a general direction. Now after that, from the
very beginning it is up to us to continue the musically initiated movement,
it is up to us to continue down that particular direction. He would
outline the perimeter of the football pitch, and then we would all get on
and play football.
AT: Are the initial guitar compositions you've just mentioned something
like Fripp came up with on the album "I Advance Masked" with Andy Summers
in 1982 ?
BB: I don't know anything about that particular record, I haven't heard it.
AT: I noticed that there were some guitar compositions on that album that
appeared later on "Beat" by King Crimson. What motivates the choice of the
old songs that you play today live?
BB: Very much if it appears to be fresh. I think some of the music is now
probably a bit dated, but for example if you play "Red", it feels extremely
fresh like it was written tomorrow, and it seems to resonate with the
time. It was written in 1974, but it was taken on-board by some of the
grunge people, Kurt Cobain mentioned it in public, it seems to be a very
influential piece to him. It just has its life on its own, and it's great
fun to play. If nobody wants to play it, we will not play it. If it starts
to smell a bit ancient, or creek a little bit, then we would not play it
either.
AT: Many people would say the same things about that legendary song "21st
Century Schizoid Man" as about "Red", although you do not play it any
longer.
BB: Well actually, we played it last night, for the first time in 22
years. I daresay we will be playing it in Budapest too. That sounds very
fresh, too, with a whole bunch of new musicians who have never played
it. Trey, Pat, Adrian and Tony have never played it, only Robert and I
have. And it sounds quite different, not completely different, but very
fresh.
AT: Is there any difference between the material you are playing this year
compared to the tour last year? Are there new tunes?
BB: Yes, we are currently playing Schizoid Man, The Sheltering Sky...
AT: I mean, new in the sense that never heard before.
BB: We are playing some excerpts from a live album out now called
THRaKaTTaK, which is one hour of improvised music from King Crimson's last
tours last year edited together. That's for the extremely adventurous
listener. Aside from that, we don't have any new material.
AT: Are you planning to record any?
BB: Indeed we are, but I don't think it will be before several months yet.
AT: We know that the previous "incarnations" of King Crimson did not last
longer than three or four years. What about this one?
BB: I never like to make predictions. You only know if King Crimson is
there if it is there at breakfast next morning. You know, I've been in and
out King Crimson 3 times, I think. It is not a job you would call
secure. On the other hand, I have never seen Robert enjoy the band as much
as now, and the band has never been as popular actually as now. We play at
bigger concerts than we ever have done. There is a lot of talk about the
next album, so I think we are here for a bit yet.
AT: I thought this depended also on Mr.Fripp's personal plans. I had the
impression that in the eighties he had set up these "programmes" in his
personal life and King Crimson was part of them.
BB: It does seem to be that, you are quite right. But I think he's more
settled now, quite a changed man. There have been two big events in his
life, number one: his marriage, number two: he doesn't have a manager any
more, and he's very happy with that. So finally he became a very relaxed
man, and he's just turned fifty years old! I think he is probably settled
in what King Crimson should do and he will be with it for a while.
AT: Don't you think that the band's rather draconian PR policy is a major
drawback in achieving an even greater success? There are restrictions that
no journalists should be allowed to make interviews when you arrive to a
town, no photos should be taken during your concerts... What is the reason
of this?
BB: That's true, and there are a lot of problems with that I think. Your
guess is as good as mine, but as soon as King Crimson starts to get
popular, it always seems to stop. And I don't quite know why that is, you'd
have to ask Robert. He has done actually a lot of interviews for "Thrak",
and he has just stopped doing interviews for a year or two. I don't think
he has anything against interviews particularly, except that if you are not
careful, your whole day gets taken up with interviews, and it becomes
really tedious. You know, nobody in King Crimson is gonna have a hit
record, and the band doesn't seek world domination. It is a band that many
people love, and by word of mouth, other people come to like it too. And I
think that's probably the best way. Somebody occasionally takes an
advertisement, or does a bit of promotion. But I suppose it's becoming a
little like the Duke Ellington Orchestra or the Modern Jazz Quartett, it
exists in and among other bands and has a position and an influence all of
its own. It's financially profitable, so it does not need Virgin Records to
make a great promotion and we don't have to come and tell you how great we
are. It's something to do with not being on rock's promotional ladder. I
don't think any journalist turned away, I hope not. I'm always willing to
explain King Crimson as far as I can to anybody. But I agree that the band
has a public perception of wanting to be left alone. I don't actually agree
with that, and I think it's a pity that it should be like that, and I'm
still interested in bringing the music to new customers.
AT: I suppose you've heard about or you've even read the Internet mailing
list, Elephant Talk. Do you consider it as a good way of keeping contact
with eventual fans? This is something that did not exist in the seventies
and eighties and even now it's quite new.
BB: I think in a way it encourages too much gossip, people love to talk. I
think it's better if we just get on making the music and up on the
Internet, they can talk whatever they like about it, who's good, who's bad,
who's a good guy, who's a bad guy. I personally don't have a computer, but
I know that Trey Gunn sees it periodically, and for a while it was very
amusing. Then it became less amusing and now nobody talks about it.
AT: So apart from the last album, what are you going to play in Budapest?
BB: We will be playing Red, Larks' maybe, Waiting Man I guess, Frame by
Frame.
AT: How do you organise the improvisation? Are there any concepts that you
agree on before, or do you just start playing along with the other members
and see what comes out of it?
BB: There is the trained reaction that every musician has when presented
with an instant musical choice. So it is not quite a case of playing along
and seeing what comes out. You react instinctively to an environment and
try to select the appropriate notes for it. On the whole, there is no
discussion on what it should be, although sometimes simple descriptive
phrases can be used, or somebody might suggest a dynamics, from very quiet
to very loud or from very loud to very quiet, a very simple shape. But in
general, it's very open.
AT: Do you have any projects or plans going on outside King Crimson?
BB: Yes, I have plans all the time. I have been running the British jazz
group Earthworks for many years, we have four CD's. But I have no
particular plans to go on with that. I plan to record an album in October
with Ralph Towner(?), the guitar player from ECM, but that is not confirmed
yet. I have just done some tracks with Steve Hackett. I'm also busy doing
the CD-ROM of my own drumming so that you can access that on your computer
if you were a music programmer. I have a number of things going on, as
everybody does.
AT: Is this going to be your first time in Budapest?
BB: Yes, and it's a great thrill for all of us to come to Hungary for the
first time. It's remarkable that King Crimson has been so slow in getting
to Eastern Europe. I've been to Poland a bit, but it's really the first
time for us in Hungary. We are looking forward to it a lot, I know that
there is a lot of young people out there who are very interested in the
band. I think it will be a terrific evening.