Interview with Bill Bruford on BBC Radio 3: Jazz on 3
Date Submitted: 15-Apr-2003
Submitted By: Daniel Bamford (djbamford at lycos dot co dot uk)
Interview by Jez Nelson, BBC Radio 3.
Transcribed by Daniel Bamford, December 1999.
[Introduction]
JN: -Bill Bruford is a man who's used his fame and, perhaps, fortune to
further his life's true musical passion: jazz. Bruford was famously the
drummer for those monsters of rock pretension, Yes -Surely the role models
for Spinal Tap and the curse of 1970s university halls. He also played
briefly with Genesis and Gong and then to great and continuing acclaim
with King Crimson.
In the late '70s he set up his own band, named it after himself and took
on the guitarist Allan Holdsworth; which brings us to 1986 and the
formation of the first version of Earthworks. I spoke to Bill before the
gig about the band's role as a springboard for young talent...
[Interview]
BB:- I think the young British guys view me as a sort of Art Blakey, you
know, a sort of grandfather who has this vehicle called Earthworks which
can give them a bit of an international platform.
JN:- I suppose the difference between you and Art Blakey is that, having
formed Earthworks in '86 with Iain Ballamy and Django Bates, Tim Harries
[error -Mick Hutton was the original bass player], you pretty much stuck
with that group for, well, 4 albums, didn't you?
BB:- We did, yes, we did about 4-odd albums, then there was a bit of a
lull because King Crimson -the rock group with which I'm occassionally
associated- lurched into action and during that intermission the band
personnel changed and we now have a second edition of Earthworks with new
young players: Steve Hamilton on keyboards, Patrick Clahar -sometimes
known for his work with Incognito- on tenor saxophone and soprano
saxophone and also 'man of the minute' Mark Hodgson on bass.
JN:- What interests me is that I remember talking to you in the early '90s
about Earthworks and I know when you were writing for the group you very
much had those musicians in mind and obviously Django Bates and Iain
Ballamy are very distinctive players, so you did 4 albums with those guys
and now it's really a brand new band so, presumably, you're having to
think differently when you write now...?
BB:- Entirely so, what you've said is quite true, but there was a
down side to that for me personally as a drummer-leader which was that I
became very dependent upon Django and Iain specifically making the gig,
which is not always possible to do in the jazz world. You know, Django
began to ascend to the dizzy heights of fame that he's at now and
therefore it'a very difficult to book him for a single Friday night in
Penge...
JN:- [chuckles]
BB:- ...without a large bribe or a substantial tour behind it. It was very
difficult to offer the kind of work that was necessary. The band did
change, we now have a more conventional line-up. Django and Iain were
very idiosyncratic and produced a lot of the particular sound around which
the band was formed. That has now really been changed somewhat to the more
traditional tenor saxophone, piano, bass and drums line-up, which is a
quartet sound which I still adore and I still think there's plenty that
you can do with those particular instruments. That also offers you a very
mobile group and is one that can function quite easily, as opposed to
taking tons of equipment about.
JN:- It's interesting that you pick up on that because the new album and
the concert is, well, for want of a better phrase, certainly more
'straight ahead.' I guess the older Earthworks had, perhaps, a stronger
connection with your sort of 'art rock' days; there's certainly a slightly
more quirky sound, so, I mean, is that something that you're going to
miss, do you think, with playing in this straight ahead context?
BB:- Well, it's time I missed it. Yes, I am leaving a rock background and
somehow I only seem able to do it in stages and I think Earthworks
-edition one- was a stage of seperation from the 'quirkiness' of art rock,
as you so delightfully put it. In fact there still is an element; I mean
my background is my background, I can't choose or wish another background
and it's what it is and I'm quite happy and proud of that, and that is as
legitimate an influence in jazz as if you were a Norwegian saxophone
player or a guy from Mississippi or something, it's a background; it's
something you bring to jazz and I hope to bring that background to both
Earthworks the new and the old editions, but yes, the electronic stuff's
gone and, yes, I would prefer to trade or deal in the more traditional
jazz quartet sound, yeah.
JN:- I mean, the new players that you have in the group, are they aware of
you as a drummer because of your work with Earthworks or because of what
you did before and also because of your return to working with King
Crimson and occassionally with Yes and your old Yes colleagues?
BB:- Well, the young guys are completely unfamiliar with the music of 25
to 30 years ago and my origins and so forth. Occassionally King Crimson
strayed into their consciousness, but I remember sitting Django Bates down
and playing him some fairly 'out' King Crimson and he was very impressed,
but most of the jazz guys don't know that much about the rock side, quite
rightly; not a lot going on, but King Crimson was, I believe, one of the
great rock bands that did have a lot of interest to the thinking jazz
player, so every now and then I sit them down and force feed them some
King Crimson and say this is what I have been doing [laughs].
JN:- You're in an interesting position though, because now, because of the
reputation of Earthworks, but also because of your reputation before that,
you get to sort of travel and play with your group and you're an
ambassador for British jazz. I mean, I was reading this article in 'The
New York Times' which starts off with the paragraph:
"England may have had a powerful influence in the rock music world, but its effect on jazz has been, at best, minimal..."
and it then goes on to talk about how impressive your group is and that's
quite an interesting thing because, I'm sure you'd agree, there are lots
of...England has actually had quite a big influence on jazz over the last
20 years or so, but you are actually in the unique position to go out
there, because of your name, and spread the word.
BB:- I am indeed in a very unique position, you're quite right, and I'm
bringing a large number of people in who sort of followed me in through
bits and pieces of my early solo work. What I think the British
misunderstand is the wholly willful ignorance of Americans towards
European jazz. Most Americans refuse to believe that Europeans can or do
play jazz at all, hence that little article that you read out there. They
genuinely can't understand why British people would want to play what they
perceive as American jazz. It's not much use explaining that we have our
own folk music and our own art rock backgrounds or our own Norwegian
backgrounds or French or Russian backgrounds. Americans are very myopic
about this [laughs].
JN:- Finally, you mentioned at the beginning of the interview that you're
seen as a bit of a British Art Blakey, does that mean that there will be
other musicians coming into this band or do you think that you'll be
working with this version of Earthworks for a few years yet?
BB:- Whenever I form a band I consider I'm going to be working with the
musicians for life, but of course, life's not like that, necessarily so,
and it's very much the jazz way: People give a lot and they take a lot and
when they can give no more and take no more it is their obligation, I
think, to move on. So long as they feel they're giving and taking in equal
balance then a band will be of use to them. Necessarily; people grow up,
move on, want to do other things, but for the foreseeable future I'd like
to play with this quartet, which we've been working with now for about a
year and a half.
JN:- Bill Bruford, thanks for talking to me.
BB:- My pleasure, Jez.
Printed without permission by BBC Radio 3.